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Appendix C |
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SOURCE: Telephone interview with Jeff Lieberman, director of the 1994 documentary But…Seriously. DATE: July 26, 2004 TEXT: LIEBERMAN: Well, because I realized that most of the time I would watch network news and read the newspaper as I was becoming an adult, like realizing what the world was all about, and I’d find myself screaming at the television or stuff that I was reading, say about the Vietnam War and things, and just saying, “Bullshit!” And I gravitated towards these guys that were doing stand up comedy that were, to me they were telling the truth, that I was screaming, “Why doesn’t the news say these things?” Right? Now, in 20/20 hindsight. I’ll give you an example. 20/20 hindsight, they did a poll recently on how many people voted for Nixon the second time, and it’s like twelve people voted for him. He won by the biggest landslide in American history. Right? Because nobody wants to say they voted for the guy that got impeached because of Watergate. And they do a poll how many people were at Woodstock. It’s in the millions. How many people say they were at Woodstock. Well, I was at Woodstock at it was less than 500,000. It was 400,000 people. So rather than what the common knowledge is today of what the truth is, it’s easy to say it now because you have the 20/20 hindsight of history, but what did they say at the time? What did the news say at the time? And what did these guys say at the time? And my premise was: the truth as we know it now came from those guys, not from the news. So in order to prove that. You know, it’s a theory. But in order to prove that, you have to get the news and you have to get what the comics said back then and juxtapose them, and you see it right for yourself. And you say, “Well, which one of these things ultimately turned out to be the truth?” Ninety-nine percent of the time it’s what came from these satirists or comics. Fortunately for me, Rob Reiner agreed. And Rob Reiner said, “Basically, this is all about the truth.” And I said, “Absolutely.” And 800-pound gorilla, so that’s how we got it done. MARRIOTT: Have you seen journalistic practice change much since the time you were growing up or does it pretty much seem the same? LIEBERMAN: I think the way it’s changed is. It’s enormous the change, and I don’t think that it came from journalism changing. Journalism changed because the market place changed so radically because there used to be three major networks. Now, it started with CNN, with 24/7 news they have to. They can’t say, “Well, for the next three hours there really is nothing to talk about ladies and gentlemen,” so they have to keep rehashing, going into minutia of things like in the O.J. trial and/or shots of somebody going in and out, you know. Plus the portable cameras all of the world so they just fill the airwaves with crap that’s not, it’s not necessary. And then of course the point of view is whoever you’re picking up the feed from, like al-Jazeera or all that, you’re getting a very distorted point of view because it’s all pop culture where everyone’s trying to get a bigger rating than the others so they say, “Here’s a shocking shot which we’ll get you to watch tonight. We’ll tease it.” And they pay for stories now which they never used to do. And that’s all about media and ratings because of the enormous competition. So on one hand it’s great to have 500 channels, but this is…. MARRIOTT: 500 channels of what? How do you get your news? Do you watch The Daily Show? LIEBERMAN: No I don’t watch The Daily Show and the fact is because I do read the newspaper. MARRIOTT: Which newspaper do you read? LIEBERMAN: New York Times everyday. And then I follow that up with a lot of things on the internet. It’s so easy to access any newspaper now because of the internet and plus all kinds of, you know, AP, associated press runs stories. If you click AOL, CNN on the internet, you immediately get a flood of current stories. So that’s another way of getting news. So I wouldn’t watch The Daily Show and find out anything that I don’t already know, and they’re doing it with a spin. But you’re right when you say most people, I don’t agree that it’s most people, it’s most young people are getting, like MTV News they actually consider news. And they actually consider The Daily Show as news. And that’s weird because that’s like in order for them to take in anything that’s quasi-serious it has to be, it has to have the spin of entertainment on it. You know he’s trying to be funny. That’s a comedy show. Right. So it’s okay. In other words, the things. Here’s the point: When I used to go see these comics back then. Richard Pryor, Mort Sahl, or people like that, I already knew all about the subject they were talking about. I didn’t learn the subject from them. It was just that they were pointing out the hypocrisy and the contradictions in it that I happened to agree with. But if you’re getting your news from Richard Pryor, you’re in trouble. You know what I mean. Or George Carlin. You gotta know it as well as he knows it and then you’re seeing his spin on it. His opinion on it. And then I usually concurred with all their opinions, but if you’re going to find out on The Daily Show that we just attacked Iraq, you’re in trouble. MARRIOTT: What do you think of people like Rush Limbaugh? He said that he’s an entertainer, but people take that as a news source as well and he’s carried by Army Times radio. LIEBERMAN: Well, he is an entertainer and I agree with that. Again, if you’re going to get your news from Rush Limbaugh, there’s something wrong with you. Because how could you not… If you’re going to find out things for the first time from Rush Limbaugh, then it’s your fault. It’s the same analogy, but he is an entertainer just the way Al Franken is an entertainer. He just does the left-wing version. And as a matter of fact, he just launched this, it’s already failed, I don’t know if you know about it, but there’s a liberal radio network. MARRIOTT: Yeah. It’s called Air America or something like that. Radio America something like that. LIEBERMAN: Yeah, something like that but it really bombed. I knew it was gonna bomb for a simple reason, Rush Limbaugh is somebody who made a show and his show became very popular. He didn’t have to say, “I’m gonna start a thing called the right-wing network.” You know what I mean? So it’s so in your face to do that, to say. Like he doesn’t make any overt claim that, “everything I’m gonna say is gonna be right-wing.” He’s just, “I’m a personality and this is what I think,” and then other people are the ones that put the brands on him. But if you’re gonna brand something first. It would be just as lame as, “Welcome to the Right-Wing Network.” MARRIOTT: RadioLeft.com? LIEBERMAN: Yeah. It’s a turn off. I think it’s a turn off to people who are fans of Al Franken or in the left because they don’t wanna be lemmings like that. MARRIOTT: There’s T-shirts of Bill Hicks here at the Virgin Megastore. Why do you think Bill Hicks was so huge overseas, but never really made it big in the U.S.? LIEBERMAN: Is that true?! He’s huge overseas?! MARRIOTT: I’ve had quote after quote from Bill Hicks material given to me… LIEBERMAN: The guy, as far as I was concerned, he was gonna be the next genius. I used him in But… Seriously didn’t I? MARRIOTT: That’s the first place I actually saw him. LIEBERMAN: The guy was unbelievable. He was gonna be the next big guy. Everybody in the comic community, you know, there’s the thing called “the comics, comic.” Even though somebody isn’t really successful, big time, everybody in the know respects them. And he was the guy. It was a shame. How old was he when he died? MARRIOTT: He was 32 years old.
LIEBERMAN: Well, yeah it’s changed a lot. One of the things that I found out when I was doing But… Seriously, people think that during the Vietnam War everybody was talking about… The anti-war movement was so huge that people just assumed that it carried over into mainstream entertainment. And the fact is, there was none of it. Zero. The only thing that was in mainstream entertainment that you even knew there was a war going on was Bob Hope. And it was pro-gung ho war in Vietnam. On the Bob Hope specials. He would go and visit the troops. He would have Ann-Margret. All that kind of stuff. But you would never know, and he would put down hippies. He would do a sketch where he looks like a hippie or anti-war thing that always in the most negative. But nobody got up there. There’s only one guy that got up and said anything against the war in Vietnam. You know who that was? MARRIOTT: Lenny Bruce? LIEBERMAN: No, Lenny Bruce was dead by then. This is a weird one. Jackie Mason. Jackie Mason’s bit that he did that I used in But… Seriously about bridges in Vietnam. Like, how could we knock out so many bridges when there’s only twelve bridges in Vietnam? MARRIOTT: 500 a week? LIEBERMAN: Yeah. And he says, “I think I know what it is. Every night we drop bridges on Vietnam. And then during the day we blow ‘em up.” Now, that seems mild now right? That was the first time that anybody said, “Hey, we’re being lied to,” i a very mild way. He was the only one because that was network television. That was Ed Sullivan. There were only three networks, but could you imagine? I mean look at what they’re doing with Iraq today. The comedians. They just have a free-for-all with it. Well, could you imagine? This is a war that went on for ten years. END. |
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